As a staff, I went to Bailingguo’s International Docking, an evangelistic meeting in Tainan at the end of October 2020.
Hanging staff cards and taking photos all over the place. In the evening, having a hot pot with a group of staff, I recall the trip with marvel – we had witnessed the Taiwan podcast’s historical events just a few hours before.
I tried to capture Kylie and Ken’s story on the bus ride back, the two Bailingguo News hosts.
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Here is Bailingguo on Spotify
The Most Important Thing In Mind
In March 2014, thousands of people gathered on Chingdao East Road in Taipei — the collision deeply affected Taiwan’s political situation.
At that time, I was still studying in the UK, many of my friends from the same generation involved in this civic movement called the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan.
Ten thousand kilometers away, crammed with countless journals and papers, I could only participate via the Internet in the occasional time slot when I was handing in my assignments.
Kylie and Ken returned to Taiwan before I did, and it was on that occasion that inspired them. At the time, they had just met at a Rotary Club event and were so busy with their activities that they had little opportunity to communicate. They happened to find each other supporting the movement in their way and started chatting.
In 2014, they looked around at Taiwan’s media landscape and discovered that it utterly disconnected the Taiwanese audience’s relationship and international news.
The extreme unfamiliarity (and, in some cases, fear) made the people uneasy, and they felt the need to initiate a radical change in their daily lives.
At that time, they were young and had nothing but their ability to experiment and think about implementing this “revolution in thinking” never stops.
At first, they created a fan page 無限期支持媒體國際化, following the slogans of various movements. In the blink of an eye, they transformed it into 狗語日報 or 無料福利社 — these programs’ goals are similar. The two young people are regularly practicing and challenging themselves – how to make Taiwanese curious about current affairs.
In those years, with a group of enthusiastic friends who were also concerned about public issues, they tried to talk about the subject through filming and interviews. Although they did not get many clicks, nor did they generate any replies, shares, or discussions, they continued to work hard, supported only by their passion. They keep failing and keep trying new possibilities. They have accumulated experience, even though they still don’t know what the future holds.
Thus, the two “mentors” they often mention in the program, Xiao Pan and Paula（小潘 & 寶拉）, the two broadcasters stationed in Taichung, finally appeared in their lives, opening up new opportunities.
The two mentors were generous with advice and encouragement throughout the creative process. The two vivid creators, Kylie and Ken, finally injected all the international news energy into the local podcast – a developing industry then.
The change came when they realized: “There’s no need to try to be someone else or to think about how to be popular.”
It’s about simply being the most complete – themselves – Kylie and Ken.
圖片來源：百靈果粉絲頁
The Courage to be Hated
Ballingguo New’s goal is to produce “the freest international news in the Chinese-speaking world.”
Unlike the BBC in the UK or the New York Times in the US, the news narrators must be neutral and objective in tone. At Ballingguo News, they are used to revealing their emotions, both positive and negative, like a casual conversation between friends rather than conventional broadcast news channels.
Sometimes, the conversation would go from current international affairs to adult issues and end on a strange note; there were even times when the two suddenly realized that the other was holding a different view on the same problem. It was like they had accidentally knocked over dominoes. They did not press the stop button and went straight to confront each other on the show. If the two hosts believe that “communication is about getting to know each other better,” they also practice this in real life.
In more than one interview, Kylie and Ken have said that when the recording button is pressed, they have found that sometimes it is the most comfortable and relaxing time to be themselves while they are busy at work.
The audience who used to listen to their chit-chat when they couldn’t get into international affairs has found that international news can be so extensive and entertaining. Such a thing as international news broadcasting and commentary truly existed in the Chinese-speaking podcast world.
Kylie and Ken each have a distinct personality. They are who they are, but they don’t make it difficult for people to get close to them. Working up close to them, there is no conflict between the way they sound on the audience’s headsets.
Despite their seemingly uninhibited nature, Kylie and Ken have no qualms about interacting with listeners on the show, including admitting when they have opposing but insightful ideas or uncivilized corrective information.
With no weighty burden and no academic background, they have never defined themselves as professional news commentators. Six years ago, they were two young creators who wanted to draw attention to international news, and along the way, they have been trying different formats without changing the ultimate purpose.
Ken, an entrepreneur who starts his own app company, says in an interview that his emotions are often more volatile than Kylie’s when it comes to attacking outsiders or inexplicable criticism. Kylie, who is an interpreter, often defines the attacks as “that’s where our energy comes from.” Sometimes the fun for them is to articulate 小粉紅’s (a.k.a. PRC’s patriotic supporter) message on the show and then laugh out loud.
Kylie and Ken company with each other through the ups and downs. In the days when the future of Taiwan’s podcast was still unclear, they kept their feet firmly planted and moved steadily forward.
In the first half of 2020, when the media suddenly started flocking to discuss Taiwan’s sound industry’s possibilities, as an audience, I finally realized how far Bailingguo News had already taken me along the way.
As both have excellent English skills, the news material, podcasts, or books they come across are often first-hand English material. They learn by doing, and as they know, they are better able to offer different points of view as they learn. And so does the audience, which grows with them.
Dave Chappelle, The Joe Rogan Experience, these names of outstanding foreign podcasters and even stand-up comedians, who are often mentioned in the Bailingguo News, are the two names that have been kept in their minds, trying to align themselves. Journalists in the typical, conventional sense of the word would be difficult to imagine who these markers are, but they are the dominant power that makes Kylie and Ken continually pushing themselves forward.
Atypical creators, of course, follow atypical role models. They truly do.
The Heads of the ‘Cult’
As you type in a search engine for Ballinger News or the two creators’ names, the screen will quickly turn up many interviews with major media outlets. In my view, as a loyal follower, I would mention their unique “religious power” that is most worth sharing. Kylie and Ken have naturally become “gurus” in the eyes of “believers,” as they consider themselves to have created a “cult.”
At their “evangelistic rally” in Tainan, they took to the stage on a raft, wearing mysterious blue robes, and gestured to the believers left and right with the OK sign as they went along. When they reached the final destination, the two climbs onto a stage in the middle of the water — this unorthodox style of the entrance is cultish indeed.
As gurus, they never try to squeeze any money out of their followers. On the contrary, their efforts to promote Bailingguo News are only aimed at getting more companies’ attention to invest in the podcast industry so that creators have the opportunity to continue providing free content to listeners and to “make good friends” with people all over Taiwan.
Like Xiao Pan and Paula, Kylie and Ken have been encouraged to enter the emerging industry, bringing their knowledge and insights into their original programs to make it even more colorful. They are never shy about promoting up-and-coming talent and pushing newcomers up the charts. Even if the many challengers are further depressing their maps as the two recommend the show. But this is the only way to diversify the industry. It is evident to witness their desire to see the island’s local podcast industry becomes more diverse and more fun.
Kylie and Ken’s signature interview, The KK Show, only invites people they find interesting and want to spend an hour or two with a particular chat. There is no restriction on celebrities or entertainers; it can be either A-Bao (a songwriter from the Paiwan tribe) or 于北辰 (a member from Kuomintang, the opposition party) selection criteria stays in their mind. When the show is on, the two always ask questions in a straightforward, standard Bailingguo style. They don’t want the “right” answers; they want to know their guests’ “real” answers: such a straight ball.
They can, and sincerity communicates across the diverse territory and invites people from all over the political spectrum to join the audience. In a society of bubbles, they are always building bridges between listeners and other viewpoints. This is something that many of today’s most polarised online KOLs are not only unwilling to do but are not even allowed to do, even if they want to. And it’s not surprising to anyone in the audience that they are invited to Bailingguo News because this stage has always accommodated a wide range of people.
Three episodes update in a week. From international news, book readings, and interviews, Bailingguo News has done everything to develop many sound creators’ imagination for Chinese-speaking podcasts.
Let the things you love be the things that matter to others — this is what I see from their passion.
圖片來源：Himalaya
Make Influence Visible
The impact that Bailingguo News has had so far is the envy of many of its creators. And I assumed that Kylie and Ken, who spent their early years fumbling alone, searching frantically and often frustrated, have figured out exactly who they want to be if Bailingguo News is one day a hugely influential brand in Taiwan.
As creators in any field, no matter what your actual role is – design, photography, songwriting, arranging, or recording – when you keep your head down as working hard and then one day look back, find that you have a group of supporters behind you, it’s a blessed memory to have.
At the end of February 2020, the duo and Mindy held a well-received event in Riverside Park. In the middle of the year, they began to dream about the possibility of doing more crazy things in larger venues with bigger audiences.
They gathered a cool group of partners and, one step at a time, set a milestone – Tainan on October 31, 2020 – that could be the highest attendance ever recorded in Taiwan’s podcast industry history at this stage.
In their private lives, Kylie and Ken are not, as some folks might suggest, proud and arrogant about staying abroad. However, they are pragmatists who believe in learning by doing. Even in selecting books for book clubs, sometimes to compensate for their lack of understanding of Taiwan’s history as the previous student stage, they choose hard books and intake them through book club programs. For example, Chen Cheng Po’s Secret Code, a book about the February 28 incident — the unrevealed and unsolved Taiwan history.
Of course, the ratings were realistic, and the results were not pleasing; hence they often made fun of themselves in the program. Next, they will focus on making fun of 百靈果蛇編 — the mysterious third host who is responsible for fact-checking, never shown her face that often does not listen to book clubs.
Self-taught on equipment and studying sound absorption, Ken is a stickler for equipment, which happens to be the perfect partner for Kylie. When he first started the recording, he was particularly prone to get frustrated throughout the day because of problems with the equipment, he mentions during several interviews.
Ken, who is slightly older than me, often says in interviews that the underlying motivation that drives them to try and fail and then get back up again is his hope to make Taiwan a better place one day.
Ken and Kylie have certainly put in the effort and time to make this a visualization. To an outsider, “Make Taiwan a better place” may have seemed like a dull and unimaginative proclamation, but the words resonated with me when I heard them again from Ken’s microphone at the packed event Tainan’s plaza.
In retrospect, Kylie and I were probably in the same generation and completed our bachelor’s degrees at NCCU. The textbook, the atmosphere we were used to may have overlapped with our understanding of Taiwan in those days.
We know the hard-won fruits of Taiwan today and aware of the difficulties and threats we are facing at the moment. All three of us are now in our late thirties, living out our faith in our way – going home, staying in Taiwan, and doing what we feel we should do.
Whenever I listen to their program, I always think of the spring gathering I missed on Chingdao East Road in 2014. I seem to be able to see those anxious reflections of my participation in various civic movements from my university days, and if I had been in Taipei at the time, I might have passed them by for a moment.
Would it have been possible if two young people had made a grand wish that more Taiwanese would be willing to start paying attention to and discussing international news?
If you’re going to do it, do it right.
Six years. It’s been a journey of belief and practice.
As I watched the roaring queue of people taking turns taking pictures with Kylie and Ken, I stood in the middle of the stream with my camera in hand, looking out the gobo lighting projector, which projected their logo on the building in the distance.
I was reminded of the adage: “Choose what you love, love what you choose.” Above all, trust that you will persevere in silence, trust that you will wait, holding your breath.
Until the world finally hears your voice.
Afterword
Been working as Kylie and Ken’s photographer for the past two days, and my personal favorite is this picture from the rehearsal the night before.
At that time, they looked up at the night sky and said, holy crap, it’s a full moon now, that’s pretty cultish!
They climbed onto the stage and discussed with the lighting boss how the lights should be “to make it more cult-like” and asked me for advice on filming.
At one point, the two cultists, leaning against the edge of the stage, were laughing so brightly that I pressed the shutter at their unawares moment.
Every time I see this picture, the characters always come with their sound effects – the sound of laughter that I know best from the earphones on my commute.
May the creator of dreams in this land also smile on this full-moon night.
Yes, Taiwan will become a better place.
I believe.
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Author & photographer: Chih-Yuan Ko
First draft: Chinese version
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2020-12-01
Postscript updated:
Bailingguo released a short documentary recently (English subtitle included). The director, Yen-How Chen, was initially supposed to be profiling their preparation for the event but inadvertently captured a moment in the US presidential election history when specific communities turned into battle mode. Chen sketched how the two felt behind the screen.
The audience will understand how Kylie and Ken think about what they were doing during these years through this clip.
